Recovered post and comments, initially published in 2015. Some of the links no longer work as the forum is no longer visible to visitors. Yet, as former members keep saying, the situation has remained the same. This forum poses as an abuse recovery community, where very sensitive information is posted in all confidence (and naivety). Members, who are already vulnerable, are often targeted with psychotic accusations of being psychopaths themselves, or infiltrators, out of thin air.There are dozens of stories on this blog alone.
Especially after becoming involved with the Cassiopaea cult, PF has been engaging in the classic technique of investigating members and keeping dossiers on them. Sensitive information is not seen as something to be protected, but as a blackmail tool; the more intimate and potentially compromising it is, the more useful it is to them. Many such groups do this, if not all (take the recent NXIVM scandal for instance). They collect it with or without permission and keep it as a means to fend off criticism, which makes former members, upon realising the group is deceptive, afraid to speak out in case their data is revealed. Anything could potentially be used against them, from writing online about bosses or coworkers, to custody cases or a dodgy immigration status. They post under the veil of anonymity, yet behind their backs, the PF team delves into their internet activity and social media profiles to find out their real identities.
Trust is paramount when confiding in people or groups with the claim of unconditional acceptance and support. Members go there and bare their hearts out, holding little back, if anything, like they would before a therapist (or priest, if they are religious). The thought that those providing this “service” are secretly engaging in this practice is very disturbing.
It should also be added that many forums do this – they sequester people’s private data and claim it would be too time-consuming to delete it, regardless of its nature. People’s privacy matters little and everything is discretionary. Thankfully, as of 2018, it seems consent can be withdrawn – I’d be amazed if forums actually responded to such requests, as they store piles of data collected from no longer willing participants.
On Psychopath Free, everything you post can (and chances are it will) be used against you.
The forum rules state that if you are banned your account is also deleted; however, a later announcement, far less visible than the ten commandments, makes an 180 degrees turn:
”Our policy has always been to delete full accounts & posts at any member’s request. We understand that relationship abuse is a sensitive topic, where anonymity is extremely important.
But we need to make a little clarification: we are done deleting accounts for trolls. If you join this site to belittle, criticize, create drama, and provoke others, you can expect your posts to stay here forever. You are not entitled to have your account deleted when you intentionally cause trouble. The majority of people making this request are people who go out in flames – insulting members, the admins, and our mission. After getting banned, they astoundingly send an email demanding to have their posts deleted.
Seriously?
I’m saying this now, loud and clear: if you want to embarrass yourself with childish, immature behavior on a public forum, then you can deal with the real-life adult consequences. It is not our job to clean up after your mess. It is not our job to erase your word salad. It is not our job to protect you from yourself . This is a very time-consuming task for the admins, since it requires the manual removal of every post. So don’t expect compliance when you PM an admin immediately after calling them names. It’s unbelievable, and we’re done playing these silly games.
And of course for any other normal member, please don’t ever hesitate to PM an admin if you need something deleted. This post is directed towards trolls only.”
1. “It is not our job to clean up after your mess. It is not our job to erase your word salad. It is not our job to protect you from yourself .”
And there I was thinking obnoxious members were banned because their posts offended others, ruining the safe and warm atmosphere – does it make any sense to leave the posts in place, so they can keep offending those who read them?
The only context this makes sense in is the admin’s choice to have them there akin to gory heads on pikes in a public square, rotting in the sun, so others can “see what happens” when they disagree. It has nothing to do with protecting others or the “atmosphere”.
2. ”If you join this site to belittle, criticize, create drama, and provoke others, you can expect your posts to stay here forever. You are not entitled to have your account deleted when you intentionally cause trouble.”
In their twisted world, creating drama and provoking others can consist of as little as a disagreement, however politely expressed. You can go from being considered a victim of abuse to being considered a troll in a matter of minutes. Their decision is final and will not be looked into, as you don’t deserve a tenth of the chance to defend yourself as others have to falsely accuse you.
If you end up contradicting them at some point it means you joined the site with the sole intention of disrupting their supposed harmony and everything you ever posted is either invalid or unimportant compared to the “security threat” you pose.
And he dares wave his middle finger about how one’s posts (some about being raped and beaten and verbally torn down) will stay there forever because of one or two disagreements with a moderator. These people astoundingly had the audacity to request or demand that their extremely sensitive information be removed, which a decent human being would do even for someone they hated. Decency and maturity oblige, provided there is any.
Does anyone else need a bucket?
3. ”This is a very time-consuming task for the admins, since it requires the manual removal of every post.”
Oh really…? When you delete an account, which takes a few seconds, all posts are deleted with it. And if you want to keep the account for some reason, forum software generally comes with a magic button which only removes the posts; it was available on vBulletin years ago. It takes a few clicks to delete 3 or 3000; the rest is done automatically.
My guess is that they want to keep threads which are active and good for traffic, without actually admitting that a “troll” might have added something of value to the forum. They want to choose what they discard and what they keep.
In terms of time, perhaps they are too busy checking out false reports, as they are proud to take every single one seriously and address it asap.
Apparently, false reports are not time-consuming.
Bucket?
Later Edit
It appears that not only did the PF team fail to ensure members’ privacy – they, at least at one point in time, drew attention to their personal stories on social media platforms, primarily Facebook, admittedly without asking for their consent, at least until one member (later banned) pointed this out.
What was the point in allowing members to delete their posts at any given time when he was using them as marketing tools on Facebook, behind their backs? And what about members’ fear that they would be tracked down by their abusers? “Your post makes me realise some people might not want that”…? Seriously?
The Artistry Of Glorified Bullshit 
Mary Peterson (MariaMars)
I was banned June of 2015 because I had personal spiritual beliefs that “triggered” the group. I don’t really remember the original post (it was about good and evil) but I definitely remember talking about a deity (Lucifer) and all hell broke loss. I pretty much stated that narcissists are not “evil” and that Lucifer is a symbol. And that if they cling to the word “evil” they will never move on and will always see themselves as victims.
Also, I was also ridiculed after telling a woman that it was not her fault that her husband has depression. AFTER being banned this user “SmittenKitten” stalked my posts and re-worded what I meant. I was so upset.
Here is what I wrote on their FB profile.
Please if you’re going to deactivate my account (mariamars25) please delete my threads/and posts. I don’t need my posts and threads to be “witch-hunted”, detected and twisted around by other prying users like “SmittenKitten”
-“Alabama1979″…guy leaving me 3 days after telling my father he wants to marry me? And then leaving out of the blue because I am guilty of giving him a depression?”
ME–I assumed the ex told her that it was her fault that he gave her depression that made her feel guilt so my original reply said—“It’s not your fault that you gave him depression. Again, it is NOT your fault.
AFTER my account was deactivated because of my personal spiritual beliefs on good and evil
SmittenKitten replied on my comment—“This is covert victim blaming disguised as support. @Alabama1979 did not give him depression! He doesn’t even have depression to begin with. He lied about that to use it as an excuse for discarding her while at the same time blaming her so she’d feel as horrible as possible.”
ME–THIS is wrong for users I don’t know to twist around my words and making me sound covertly unsupportive. That is very cruel and unfair. My intention was to give advice (like others who had told me that it wasn’t my fault that my ex has say certain things to me).
Anyways my user name is mariamars25 if you are curious on how they “helped” me. I honestly don’t understand why I ran to that site after my breakup but I know I was going through a very VERY vulnerable period of my life. They try so hard to say that what I did was not my fault. Well now I can proudly and honestly admit that I did caused a lot of pain but what made me laugh happily is the realization that the relationship was toxic from the beginning. Nothing really changed. He was not some evil psychopath and I was no innocent woman caught in his lies. It was always a mess. I was no victim.
I don’t think I would ever thought of this if I was still sucked in that stupid forum. Actually it took liarscheatersrus.com, an angry ex who threaten me to take me to court plus $1000 dollars (to get rid of the posts from that cheaters site) to really WAKE me up and move on for GOOD. That psychopathfree forum encourages you to STAY mad and I did (even after being banned) and I posted all of these stupid narcissist posts on my FB profile. I would go to bed angry and wake up angry thinking “he is a narcissist” “I hate him” “I am a victim” blah blah blah……for 2 months I felt this.
Now all I can focus on is MY life (especially my upcoming trip to Peru) and I am happy. If you created this page a month earlier maybe I would have found it and deleted my account but it;s better now that many are informed about this TOXIC disgusting site full of leeches begging for pity.
NOVEMBER 3, 2015
I tried searching for your username earlier but came up empty as I have to be logged in in order to use the search bar on PF.
It’s great that you have overcome the attitude that website is continually pushing. Best of luck!
NOVEMBER 3, 2015
Hi Mary,
I apologise if this is a nosy question; I was wondering if you have received any threats from PF, since you made your video about the site private.
I hope everything is going well 🙂 .
FEBRUARY 21, 2016
maraimars25
Everything is going well now.
Sorry for the Late Reply. Nope. No threats. I did put it on private because I felt this negative energy…
I’m actually creating a new video about rumination and how Psychopath Free encourages it.
APRIL 12, 2016
Thank you for replying; I’m glad everything is going well. I’m sure they send enough negative energy against anyone who gives them bad press (if they have any to spare, that is).
APRIL 12, 2016
Although it’s strange to see how they can twist a member’s words to make them into the opposite of their initial meaning, it’s not shocking anymore, as PF is a logic-free zone, according to what so many have experienced. They seem to think people either agree 100% with them or went to their site to cause damage and are a menace to others. The countless shades of grey are alien to them.
You are so right about relationships; the normal/ healthy evolution, even when things fall apart, is to calm down and move on. That’s what happens after everyday arguments as well, when we disagree with those who are close to us. Anger fades away eventually and the sooner it does the sooner one is able to handle life better, with more optimism.
The pretend therapists on PF seem to apply the same method to members that they apply to those who hurt them – they constantly reminisce about the past, looking for new evidence of how evil those people were. You’d think they’d leave you alone after banning you, but no, they persevere, as if wanting to continually prove they made the right choice.
NOVEMBER 3, 2015
Amanda
I joined the community well over a year ago, to find peer support / relating about my abusive parents. At some point I admitted to having struggled through really conflicting feelings about loving my abusers and being able to understand the ways they suffered, themselves, while also knowing that I needed to detach and break away. I was promptly banned for “sympathizing with perpetrators”. You can’t be honest about the entire emotional process of letting go of bad people on that website, or they will nail for you it. You have to lie and deny certain stages and feelings. Not healthy.
FEBRUARY 18, 2016
Hi Amanda, sorry for the delay in approving the comment, I had some connection problems.
It’s almost like they’re asking you to stop being human. If you’re not at their level of hatred and vigilance, you’re not worthy of their ”support”.
FEBRUARY 18, 2016
Amanda
Well to be honest, I think a lot of them have narcissism, but can’t see it in themselves. In my personal observations over the years, it seems like psychopaths prey on narcissists a lot, due to the narcissists’ blindness to things and being easy to manipulate. Some signs I noticed of narcissism there were
1. Forbidding any emotions or stages in the grieving process deemed “unacceptable”
2. Black and White thinking / splitting
3. Mob mentalities (intimidating leaders with sycophants, while content of posts was sometimes seemingly ignored)
4. Taking responsibility for learning to protect one’s self and develop healthy boundaries often seen as “victim blaming” instead of practical skills
And so on. I don’t think the site culture is very healthy. I definitely understand that extreme rage, as well as hypervigilance, are natural responses to having been abused, but they can’t be the only factors allowed to flourish, or no healing, understanding and so on actually ever takes place.
My personal opinion. I hope everyone there can someday complete the whole journey.
FEBRUARY 19, 2016
Lisa
Amanda,
They wanted you to press the delete button on your family while you sifted through the grey areas and the subtleties and tried to gain perspective. That is what a normal, compassionate person would and should do.
When you think about it, what kind of a person would willingly give up their family, without intense scrutiny of family members, and self reflection first?
They are treating your interpersonal familial situation, as if there was never a bond between you and your family, to begin with. In so doing, do they not question the fact that it is psychopaths, alone, who can claim this ‘talent’ for just walking away?
They are encouraging people to cut bonds instantly with their parents and siblings. Don’t think about it, just do it. Take decades of your life and just delete them, like they plan to delete you for infractions of their cult-like ‘no contact,’ bullshit.
The thing that cracks me up is these types have been ‘no contact,’ for years, but ruminate, whine, moan excessively FOR YEARS. After a while that’s all they’ve got. It’s like an entrenched mechanical response. They become whiny, bagpipes of ‘despair’ who can’t stop performing. And that’s what it becomes. They are no longer thinking, they are performing.
Very very very harmful.
APRIL 12, 2016
Lisa
Hi Amanda,
So sad you had to endure the histrionics of the hyper-vigilant harpies. I was unceremoniously booted off, too, for only God knows what. My impression of fellow members while I was there, briefly, was that they were nearly all victims of pathologicals or run of the mill awful people. Whatever the state of mind of the abuser, these people seemed to have been genuinely traumatized. I felt that Peace, as well, had a terrible experience. I take exception with what he did with that experience, like you, but I don’t doubt he had a very tough time.
There were a few mods, though, who have been obsessively posting day in and day out, for years, about their own experiences, under the apparent guise of, ‘helping others.’ They are strident and bitter. So whatever approach they are taking ‘to heal,’ I’d do the exact opposite.
It does take some people longer to heal, granted, but the flip side of this is the mod or senior poster who prevent their own emotional healing by attacking others, obsessing and hyper focus on their past. Their ‘hero or heroine’s journey’ is all down hill, trapped in a cul de sac of circular, self congratulatory, bitter ruminations. How is this going ‘no contact.’ ??
They are not psychopathic but the polar opposite, the hyper sensitive individual who splits black as a reaction to trauma. Very sad. Sad too that the consequence of being targeted by a psychopath can produce behavior in the victims that comes to resemble the actions of psychopaths themselves. No sensitivity and hyper sensitivity are strikingly similar in eerie ways.
As far as P’s praying on narcissists, I think of Andy Warhol and his coterie of hangers on at the Factory in New York, a few decades ago. Candy Darling is a good example. Edie Sedgewick overdosed. Many of these men and women were celebrated and adored by Warhol for a time — and then dumped when he grew tired of them. Candy Darling, for one, never seemed to recover emotionally.
FEBRUARY 20, 2016
Reed
The people there are just like the freaks they complain about: entitled, one-dimensional, only approve when everything goes their way & everyone agree’s with them, refuse to look inward.. They just blame, attack, ally & play the victim… They’re huge hypocrites… kind of like the abusers.
I dealt with P’s in the past; recognized my errors in judgement, accepted responsibility, became aware, changed things that were attracting them & it’s been smooth sailing as far as toxic people. Yes, I also was raised in an unhealthy environment, was conditioned by various bad people later on, surrounded by predators, didn’t know about assertiveness & boundaries… Life isn’t peaches & rainbows; it’s cruel & unfair; things happen we have no control over & couldn’t recognize until the damage is done. But we learn & evolve.
PF doesn’t want to accept anything other than being a helpless victim. Only post articles that talk badly about the abusers- none on why they’re attracting them. Despise & avoid anything that requires them to look inward; their past, parents & what they can do to improve & change traits that attract these freaks. They’re not a magnet, there’s nothing they can do, co-dependency doesn’t exist, P’s target anyone… Only provide links to validate their point of view… If they look at their past- it’s to complain & play the victim. Bring any of this to their attention, and it’s victim blaming. Including articles on how to stop BEING the victim. Like everyone is being targeted & there’s nothing anyone can do. Yeah, no. They also make a mistake of not allowing links to disordered authors & quotes. I learned a TON from looking at their forums & such. They specify who they target, which traits they look for, the tactics they use… I suppose that goes against their helpless victim illusion. They’re no different than a cult. Same thing P’s do. Two sides of the same coin.
You can’t help people like this. I knew a lot of distressed people back in the day; tried offering sympathy & support; they just complained & repeated the same destructive patterns over & over… whether they were abused or the abusers. All they saw was their point of view; there was nothing they could do. Waste of time. Fortunately, I’m no longer the sympathizer / fixer. Can’t save everyone. Had to deal on my own; not letting them drag me down, too. I did learn, accept, heal, evolve & move on. People like this will not- and that’s their issue to deal with.
FEBRUARY 21, 2016
The amount of anger and self-righteousness on that forum is quite sad, if you look at it from outside. The hypervigilance, the snapping at any hint of disagreement, reacting as if they were speaking to an advocate of their ”ex-P”, who makes outrageous claims in order to re-traumatise them. They seem really on edge, day in and day out.
FEBRUARY 22, 2016
Reed
To an extent, it makes sense. Getting out of toxic situations causes a lot of chaotic emotions & hypervigilance… especially when dealing with the disordered. I went ballistic for a few years; was on edge, extremely defensive, looking for any hint of deceit, calling people out… As were the victims I sympathized with back in the day. Some of whom became abusers themselves. Many of the abusers were also abused at an early age. It’s a chaotic mess… It’s best to keep away & not try to save anyone.
Victims just want sympathy & validation- not advice, or ways on how to protect themselves. Anything that even hints at looking inwards is victim blaming. But if they fortfied the weaknesses predators are looking for- they’d stop being victims. They don’t want to accept that there’s anything they do wrong- when it doesn’t work that way. Predators don’t care about details; right or wrong. They aren’t analyzing everything & have no moral code. They see enough vulnerability- they strike. It’s up to people to protect themselves against them- not just complain about unfairness. Predators ARE cruel & unfair. So unfair that they target victims; exploit & abuse them further.
FEBRUARY 23, 2016
Yes, I know. I’m familiar with the way hypervigilance works, unfortunately, and sometimes have to make a conscious effort to realise something is just in my head. What I have learned to do, however, if I suspect some negativity coming from a person, is have a polite and apologetic discussion to establish whether I’ve actually bothered them, and that clears matters up, which is way better than becoming aggressive and accusing people of trying to hurt me. Yes, it is a problem, I’m not judging anyone for feeling that way – but at some point one has to admit it’s inexcusable to keep making false accusations with a feeling of entitlement and impunity.
FEBRUARY 23, 2016
Reed
I had to learn all of this the hard way. When looking back, I was incredibly weak, naive, soft, submissive, trusting, needy, generous, sympathetic, open to everyone… Once I fortified weaknesses & became aware & assertive- the red X on my back was gone. Vultures don’t even recognize me anymore. Used to be surrounded by them. The world hasn’t changed; only how I relate to it & view things.
FEBRUARY 23, 2016
It’s great that you were able to undergo that transformation in a way you’re happy with.
FEBRUARY 23, 2016
Lisa
Hi Reed,
Don’t know if you are still following this blog but just want to comment on the dynamics of drawing psychopaths to you, that you mention. Certainly, there are some who repeatedly draw this type and part of their over all self analysis, (for lack of better terms) should include reflecting on that and making necessary changes. It worked for you!
A more appropriate and realistic response to the advice you were giving fellow members should have supported your point of view, as it applies to a subset of victims of narcissism and victims of people who are irresponsible idiots or a**holes.
Psychopath Free mods and administrators should have taken this most sensitive of issues and teased out the relevant points, you made, without offending you or their other members. But they are so hyper sensitive and have so much reactive aggression, they don’t seem to be able to think straight.
In my own experience I have encountered a few people targeted whose only ‘pathology,’ was being kind hearted and empathetic, but who are otherwise strong individuals who were in work situations with a P and another who was targeted and used by a very slick type who appealed to her deep sense of right and wrong and her kindness and generosity of spirit. She is a very strong person, one of the strongest people I’ve ever known.
I am also aware of people who get into one crazy relationship after another and it is very frustrating to witness. I think that these types may be too subject to the initial charm of a narcissist and have to really work on that. Being susceptible to the gregarious charming narcissist, in a repeating pattern, is very difficult. They lack empathy and will cause harm. But this is a far cry from being the target of a true emotionally sadistic psychopath. That is something nobody, I don’t care how troubled they are, is ever going to do again. All they need is the right information.
It is important that this sensitive subject is covered by recovery forums with the greatest tact and respect for all members. Obviously Psychopath Free moderators are unable to do this, or for some reason, perhaps revolving around commercial interests, are unwilling to do so. They may also lack the required amount of analytical ability, or be in too emotional a state to access it.
Logic and objectivity have to balance the histrionics evident on many recovery forums.. And it is most often the moderators who are the worst offenders.
APRIL 13, 2016
Yesterday I had a peek and saw them freak out again regarding an article which supposedly engages in victim blaming. I didn’t save the link but I think it was something on the subject of attracting the wrong people. The reaction was hysterical, as usual.
APRIL 14, 2016
Tanya
I got banned from psychopathfree.com, because somewhere I wrote that the only thing that made the pain stop was getting my revenge. I didn’t kill anyone, just gave my ex his own medicine. And when he saw me with other guys, he started chasing me like crazy. I had already lost my feelings for him, but he changed his life, career and wardrobe to be “on my level”.
Anyway, I can’t see what did I write to trigger these women like that. Everyone got so mad! What’s wrong with those people – is it the fact that they prefer sitting and crying instead of keeping their heads high and showing assholes they can’t play with their hearts?
Everyone started saying “revenge is bad for you”… yeah, right, bad… it’s bad, because someone else got it and actually felt better and you can’t. How can you say sth can’t make me feel good, when it DID make me feel good? It didn’t make me happy, but it made me satisfied and I could then close that page and start another one.
So, I got banned… probably because of jealousy. These people are bat-shit crazy, be careful with them!
JUNE 16, 2016
They have this “ritualistic” way of dealing with things and anyone who deviates from it is not welcome there, especially if they show signs of being healed or strong in general. Dealing with things your own way meant that you wouldn’t be following protocol, so to speak.
Also, they seek to brainwash people into seeing psychos everywhere, so if you’re not optimal material and have moved on… Especially if you start disagreeing with them on what is good for you or not. Though any sensible person would agree you know best in that situation.
JUNE 16, 2016
Lisa
Tanya,
Yes, the good old, one size fits all. First of all, I would bet that most of the offenders that forum members and mods have interacted with have personality disorders like narcissism, which is bad enough. Most of them have not dealt with dangerous psychopaths.
The idea that psychopaths (anybody with a character disorder, according to many recovery forums) are ALWAYS smarter, stealthier and more capable than the average person, isn’t true. It’s also a bit of a disempowering message dished out to every victim. The problem is, true psychopaths can be dangerous. One should break contact and stay away. But, some recovery forums are far too quick to call each and every disordered jerk a psychopath. That’s the problem.
I too, took matters into my own hands, waited until after I was healed from the experience and then, on principle, went after the clown who consciously tried to destroy my life — for kicks. It worked and gave me tremendous peace. I have never mentioned it on any forum as I don’t want to give people who may be struggling with more of a monster than I was, any ideas.
But…good on you! I hope you feel better!
JUNE 17, 2016
Well, folks, guess what.
There’s a new announcement on PF regarding privacy and the risks everyone takes when posting about their personal situation.
https://www.psychopathfree.com/threads/search-engines-your-posts-your-privacy.66386/#post-732666
“I just want to remind everyone that this forum is entirely 100% public. That includes your posts being cataloged by all the search engines. Google, Bing, DuckDuckGo, and Yahoo to name a few. Please keep this in mind when sharing specific information about your experience. In the spirit of transparency, we tell you this when you are signing up as a member. If you leave a trail of breadcrumbs, such as a previously used “alias”, a familiar avatar, a photo of yourself or some identifiable part of you, if someone is looking they can find you. Deleting your posts will not remove them from the cache that search engines such as Google keep, and we have zero control over that. YOU WILL STILL BE LOCATABLE. So do yourself a favor and protect your anonymity. We cannot remove all traces of your posts. If someone quotes you, it is there for eternity. So again I just want to caution you about the specific information you share. You get one shot with a username change, so choose wisely. And going forward, mass deletion requests of your posts will be handled on a case by case basis. You have the power to delete your posts, and we are going to ask you to exercise this should you feel the need to erase what you have written.”
Do yourself a favour and protect your anonymity… How ironic and hypocritical, coming from the same people who invade your privacy with the aid of sophisticated technology.
I wonder how people who are banned out of the blue after having hundreds or thousands of posts will manage to delete them all by themselves, when an admin could handle that in less that 20 seconds? Many people who end up banned have no idea they will lose all control over their accounts; it happens within hours or even minutes. How are they expected to delete their posts in that situation? From what some former members wrote on Amazon, they emailed the team asking for that to happen after a ban and received no reply.
Also, I have to make another correction – they can , in real time, stop you from deleting your posts. It happened to me. I had control over some posts but not others, which were considered “contentious”.
JULY 12, 2016
Punished Whistle Blower
I just searched: “What does “inactive” mean at Psychopathfree and I came across your blog. It is both interesting and timely.
Last night I tried to log in and it says my account has been deactivated. No email, no warning… nothing.
Well..
Earlier in the day yesterday I responded to a PM that was sent to me and 4 others that I knew. One of the members indicated she preferred PM because she was feeling unsafe uploading images, she had heard that the images could be traced to the location that the image was taken. I doubted it, so I went to our little sharing garden thread and downloaded an image of a tree. (Yes. A friggin’ tree is the smoking gun.) I right-clicked it, and she was right… longitude and latitude was displayed under properties. I entered the coordinates into Google, snapped a screen shot of the roof of the house where the photo was taken and uploaded the image to the Private Message letting all the gals know it was true; in a Private Message – not publically! I then asked the gals if the Admins knew and communicated that I thought it a problem and I enclosed a link on how to turn off Locations Services on their phones. I thought I was being helpful to a small circle of users who trusted each other. I went to make coffee, responded to an email and entered the chat again. Well- one of the gals freaked, it was indeed the roof of her house. I felt terrible that she felt violated, I did. But I also thought she was being a little histrionic… after all, it was a private message and it was just her roof, no address. While I was away… she notified Peace, and she said, that Peace said: “all future uploaded images would be stripped of Location data”. I tried to PM Peace and LuckyLaura, but they do not receive PMs from us ordinary users. Since I could reach them, I considered posting in the Tech Support thread but decided I did not want to alarm the masses and create a mass hysteria. Plus, they knew. I really thought I was being respectful to what I consider to be a huge security problem for a forum of abuse victims. I thought it was over. Really I did. Until I tried to log in last night.
LSS – Thank for clarifying, that I am indeed banned. No explanation, no email, no respect…. just discarded for identifying a security vulnerability. Kind of makes me wonder who these people are and how do they justify their behavior…. Reminds me of that film, Lord of the Flies. Sigh.
AUGUST 1, 2016
I had no idea this could be done so easily. What I do know is that they have the ability to trace members down to the house they live in (which of course is not mentioned anywhere on their site). And they used this ability in the past, to cause trouble at least in one person’s life, by sending the police to her door.
If you had raised this publicly it would’ve opened a can of worms regarding privacy; they definitely wouldn’t want members to know how easy it is for their exact location to be exposed. No one is anonymous there, not to “the team” anyway, though they try to give members that impression.
Everyone’s privacy is violated by these people, without their permission or even suspicion.
AUGUST 1, 2016
It’s really sad – and ironic – that the member who freaked out turned against the person trying to help her figure things out and sought protection straight from those who violate her privacy by default, day in and day out. Anyone should be able to see you were only trying to shed light on the actual security of the site.
AUGUST 1, 2016
Punished Whistle Blower
Maria,
Thank you for your support and responding. I agree. I was astonished at her over reaction. The problem is I have not idea what she told the admins, but clearly the admins could read the Private Message [PM] and see I was just confirming that it was true, the Geolocation was not stripped by the PF servers as it should have been. . I even posted an educational link in the PM to show the gals how to protect themselves in the future. Here is the link: http://www.howtogeek.com/211427/how-to-see-exactly-where-a-photo-was-taken-and-keep-your-location-private/
I am astonished that PF sent the police to someone’s house…. seriously? Talk about lack of boundaries, harassment and intimidation.
After my relationship, I paid a service to DeleteMe from the Internets public records. The person I was involved with is dangerous. I did this for my safety. I am sure I am not the only one who worries about being found by their Ex, Bottom line is PF was careless with uploaded files… they essentially were handing over victims locations and washing their hands from the problem as stated above. ““I just want to remind everyone that this forum is entirely 100% public” They just should have added… “And if you post a photo from your phone, you are sending a Google map to your Psychopath” I wonder if they could be held liable? Facebook, Twitter and the like all strip the EFIX data upon upload. Responsible social media companies have been doing this for years.
Thank you maintaining this blog. I have found the reading here to be helpful. 🙂
AUGUST 1, 2016
Yes, a couple of former members mentioned someone posting about wanting to commit suicide. She was from a different country and in the middle of a custody battle. They tracked her down and alerted the police. The last thing this woman needed, I’m sure.
AUGUST 1, 2016
You don’t need to thank me 🙂 . I just wish it didn’t have to happen to so many people.
AUGUST 1, 2016
Martine
PF recently changed their forum structure so that only members can view posts. The reasons provided for this change are not clear: https://www.psychopathfree.com/articles/changes-to-the-psychopath-free-community-forum.364/
My own bitter experience at the hands of PF moderators leaves me concerned that this change, whatever it may purport to be, renders PF less accountable than ever and leaves members more vulnerable than ever. From now on, members will be left to the dubious methods and standards of justice executed by the site moderators without any outside person being able to view the behavior and treatment doled out to those who fall foul of the PF personnel.
I found these moderators to be vastly unsuited to their self-appointed role as guides of people looking for support and answers as they try to make sense of their painful experiences. Like someone else writing here, I was treated to a dose of SmittenKitten’s unbelievable vitriol after I questioned the heavy-handed treatment of one of the moderators. I then found my earlier private communications to a moderator exposed in a public thread and a public comment, kindly meant by me to another member, attacked and dissected with negative meanings attached which were an invention of their own sick minds. I could hardly believe that I was being accused and shamed so viciously and publicly. I had only ever treated others on that site with care and respect, including the moderators.
Having joined the long line of those bludgeoned by these people, I can say to the person who wrote here that this thread is comprised of two people with an ax to grind, you are sadly mistaken. There are many people who have been treated in this way by PF, which sets itself up as a safe space for those recovering from abuse when in reality it is anything but that. I have come across other exposes of Peace’s ‘safe space’ and it is heartening to know that others are trying to sound the warning.
The forum is a hornets nest of hatred, cultivated not only for the so-called psychopaths who members are seeking to heal from, but also too often for the unsuspecting members themselves. The prevailing culture is truly cult-like, complete with a sycophantic worship of the site’s founder, censure for those who fail to tow the party line and a vicious pack mentality which quickly springs to life when someone rocks the boat. As to the silent consent of posters who witness maltreatment of others, I suspect that there are many who shrink at what they observe, too intimidated to speak up and grateful to not be in the firing line. I can hardly blame them for their lack of response. The atmosphere of that forum is one of intimidation under the cover of feigned support. Aside from the kindness of some fellow members, I found very little true support and care evident on that site.
I shudder to think of some of the unsuspecting people who go there vulnerable and trusting. PF is the last place you want to go to find healing, answers and support. It may all go smoothly enough if you never question their ruthless methods and the culture of eternally wallowing in bitterness and anger. But heaven help you if you happen to step out of line, even inadvertently. You will quickly find yourself branded as the enemy, with no recourse, no rights and not a shred of human decency as you drag your wounded self away.
Peace show his true colors in his stated position towards those who request removal of their posts. This should be an unequivocal and unconditional right afforded anyone who posted on his site, no matter how the relationship ended. We were his guests and expected that our rights and dignity would be upheld at all times. By his statement, he shows himself to be ruthless, unjust and vengeful, affording proper standards of care only to those who please him – much like an autocrat. Hardly a person fit to manage a forum for vulnerable people.
DECEMBER 7, 2016
Just peeking at that thread, there is a member who was made inactive yesterday and had over 800 posts… I’m not sure if it’s you but they seem to be in the habit of kicking long-term members out without remorse or an explanation. And the others just keep posting as if nothing happened. It just shows you how volatile these connections can be.
AUGUST 1, 2016
Punished Whistle Blower
That was me… 😉 over 800 posts and over 4000+ likes… 14 months NC and a PF Donor.
AUGUST 1, 2016
To me it’s very strange that no one raises the issue (though I don’t have time to read through all the recent threads where that would be liekely to happen). Surely some members realise this wasn’t justified.
AUGUST 1, 2016
Punished Whistle Blower
Yes… I have the PM string where another member who initiated the PM indicated that the one member was over reacting and basically said “it was just your roof… not your address”. Everyone else thanked me for pointing it out to them. I was just being helpful. I often jumped into the tech thread and helped out there too. No good deed goes unpunished. LOL! You are making me realize how crazy the PF forum is. Perhaps being bounced is a blessing.
AUGUST 1, 2016
Coincidentally, this came up in the suggestions: https://www.psychopathfree.com/threads/sharing-various-threads-on-pfs-facebook-and-other-social-media-pages.20964/Maybe because the word “sharing” is in both thread titles.
I had no idea they put people’s personal threads on Facebook. Wasn’t PF supposed to be some “safe space” for people to take refuge in? I know threads are public and anyone can find them, but actually advertising people’s stories…?
I’ll add screen shots in the post before the thread goes missing (this happened with another one about codependency; maybe this entire change has brought some unwanted threads to the surface again). I can’t seem to upload anything into the comment.
AUGUST 1, 2016
Punished Whistle Blower
Here is a screenshot of what I tried to PM to Peace, but ended up emailing. I have not heard a peep from them.
https://s31.postimg.org/5xqkt2o97/peace.jpg
AUGUST 1, 2016
This is blatant dishonesty on his part, perhaps (well almost surely) cowardice as well, fearing you might expose the weakness of the site he promotes as extremely safe.
AUGUST 1, 2016
Punished Whistle Blower
Let’s face it… it is actually a site to promote books. There is very little care and concern for the feelings of members unless you drink their Kool-Aid. I recall watching some very disturbing threads where users were being attacked for expressing or perhaps challenging the rigid ideals mandated by PF. I was too new in recovery to say anything, but felt disturbed afterward.
And I agree, it is suppose to be a safe place, but as you can see, and anyone who finds this thread… it is not. I am just grateful this did not happen when I was early on as I was in a fragile state. Someday, I hope PF is held accountable.
AUGUST 1, 2016
I hope so as well. This is a new one – unashamedly using people’s suffering as self-promotion, without any concern for their safety, at the same time reassuring them constantly that PF was a “safe haven”.
AUGUST 1, 2016
Punished Whistle Blower
” unashamedly using people’s suffering as self-promotion, without any concern for their safety, at the same time reassuring them constantly that PF was a “safe haven”
The statement above really resonated with me. PsychopathFree is a farce. It is obvious that they have very little care or concern for the victims safety.
I decided to do some research to see what I could do. a Perhaps at the very least, I can ask my attorney to send a letter requesting deletion of my posts, photos and journal. I saw firsthand how careless they were with allowing geolocation to be posted in images. And I feel unsafe knowing photos of my yard and location are on their servers.
I assumed my attorney would need the address so I did a little research on the web and discovered that they are a 501C3 and fall under the Category: P43 (Family Violence Shelters and Services). However, the address is a very small studio apartment in Boston. Does anyone know if this is really their address? Somehow, I envisioned at least an office space or something more legitimate looking.
(address removed for safety reasons)
AUGUST 2, 2016
Punished Whistle Blower
Madge, Thank you so much for your reply. I am really glad that your data was deleted. Since I am blocked, and it is against their policy for me to create another account. How do I get in touch with them? I have emailed: peace@psychopathfree.com and admin@psychopathfree.com to no avail. Any help you can provide would be greatly appreciated.
I agree the address I posted above is there public address listed on their 501c3. (Strange that you can use the address of a vacant apartment to obtain a 501C3.) I am still astonished that there is no office or PO Box. It is scary to think that I trusted this site with my data. It just shows how vulnerable we all once were.
I will not give up on this. I sent another email today politely asking for removal.
But I agree with Lisa (below) There should be recourse.
AUGUST 10, 2016
Something has happened paranoia-wise after you were banned. They disabled registrations and they’ve been disabled ever since. Perhaps they’re planning another “purge” of undesirables?
AUGUST 10, 2016
Punished Whistle Blower
Maria, I just giggled and snorted in a VERY unladylike way while reading your post. If I have created an uproar, I find it entertaining as I am actually an ethical technical person and have not launched an attack on PF’s servers. But in all seriousness, I do feel concerned for others who are innocent, and may be wrongly accused and “purged”. We have all seen them do it. They swoop in like a pack of wolves and berate innocent inquisitive new members who lack the ability to speak eloquently using the latest recovery jargon. Then they stalk other members who may have been friendly with that member… What you are describing is very real at PF.
AUGUST 11, 2016
I can’t take any credit for that; it had been waiting to happen for a long time. They’ve been criticised so many times before. Plus, there’s no guarantee that this has anything to do with their decisions.
AUGUST 13, 2016
Punished Whistle Blower
Madge,
I admire that you had enough sense to know it was time to go and you were able to separate amicably. I did as you suggested, and used a litttle Google Kung-Fu…. I searched for: “Psychopathfree.com: myusername” I was surprised to see my posts are still churning likes.
I agree, we are recovering form a recovery forum. Who would have thought that this is where we would be. Or that we would even need to be… In all honestly, it is helpful to read your posts and to know and understand that we are not alone.
AUGUST 11, 2016
jonsmith
The irony of this post is that you claim to be concerned about your and other’s private data and being victimized by this forum on the discussion, and yet you leave a comment on the internet, putting the entire site in jeopardy at risk posting someone’s address!?
This is not going along with your views, so I doubt this comment will be approved, I have no stake in the forums you are discussing here, a google search about being banned brought me to this topic. I was just surprised at the number of replies and see that it is between two people on a smear campaign. Good luck with that
SEPTEMBER 25, 2016
Sorry for your comment not being visible so far. I just knew while having no access to the blog a comment of this sort (and attached accusation of censorship due to the delay) would eventually pop up. Murphy’s law. I’ve never once censored comments so I’m not sure why you are accusing me of that.
I realise it was dodgy to provide links and screenshots in terms of privacy; however, the average internet user coming across a blog would not have the same malicious interest of delving into a stranger’s live as PF admins do. A member’s privacy is beyond invaded already, in ways they never consented to.
I’m sure you are completely neutral (read in the same tone as your best wishes).
OCTOBER 3, 2016
PS, if you’re referring to the address listed for their organisation, that is public information; no one is being doxxed here.
I realise how this looks (discussing privacy issues while showing samples of discussions which were not meant to be used by third parties). However, it was necessary as proof of what was being written.
OCTOBER 3, 2016
Punished Whistle Blower
Madge,
I can see how originally they disliked sharing the targeted traffic with other authors, and did whatever they could to control or disallow it, even if is meant discounting the author or banning them. However, I am sure it did not take long PF to realize that through the Amazon Affiliate Program they could make a lot of money showcasing “other” authors. Let’s take a look at Amazons pay out scale, which allows PF to earn higher commissions based on the volume of downloads per month.
https://postimg.org/image/fep0e23iz/
It is not rocket science that the library grew and is often showcased now. I am sure the selfish values they originally had are overshadowed by new income…. it is terrible that they turned away some of these authors early on as I am sure they had a lot to offer other members.
BTW – I read that story about the pilots wife, it was a clear example of N abuse. I found it very helpful. Interesting that you mentioned her. I thought I recognized her once on the forum. Thanks for confirming that may have been her. I admired her courage and strength in her story. And Sandra Brown’s book is probably the most comprehensive on the subject, also a good read.
The bookshelves today are saturated. I have downloaded a few recently and honestly lost interest, as they are all very similar. I wondered if one was plagiarized from another, but a shared “rhetoric” is probably a better description.
AUGUST 11, 2016
It’s a lucrative niche nowadays. It’s more about securing a perpetual victim than identifying actual psychopaths. Many PF members (and I assume members of similar platforms) keep seeing a “P” around every corner.
AUGUST 11, 2016
Lisa
Encouraging people to see monsters lurking around every corner is the antithesis of a genuinely therapeutic approach, Maria. This is something you’ve taken pains to point out on your blog here.
Those who have never been targeted by a psychopath need some education, for sure — but from reliable sources, like Robert Hare. Psychopaths are out there and they do artfully disguise themselves. Even those with have been spared this nightmare should refrain from hauling out the criteria to explain the behavior of people who are just f’d up.
But those who have first hand experience with an honest to God psychopath need constant reassurance that the world is not full of P’s, or they will start to view all of their interactions with others through a very dark lens. Being encouraged to label others as demonic (essentially) is corrosive to the family, to marriage partnerships and to the work environment.
Like other radical ideologies that incorporate an extreme and prejudiced ‘us versus them’ point of view, the ‘angels versus devils’ or ’empathy versus psychopaths’ awakens some destructive religious archetypes in a society already under stress.
Mackenzie and his crew, through their efforts to educate and enlighten, are turning the clock back to pre-Enlightenment times. And they appear to be acting partly out of commercial interest.
Thanks to Madge and Punished Whistle Blower for their inside input! They have certainly confirmed your worst fears.
I would also suggest all who have been victimized by a psychopath to read The Psychopath Test, by Jon Ronson. He also has a Ted talks video on youtube, where he explores this topic.
AUGUST 14, 2016
Lisa
I am considering having a tech expert peruse the sight when I have the time. It would be interesting to get a lawyer’s opinion on their abuse of members who fall out of favor too.
Refusing to delete text that might reveal a member’s identity might just get them in trouble with the law. Even though it is a public forum many people post while under extreme stress and should automatically have their text deleted if they so require.
Holding people up to scorn after deleting them, so they have no ability to defend themselves should be brought to the attention of Google and Yahoo, as well as all of the online organizations devoted to dealing with online bullies.
AUGUST 4, 2016
Punished Whistle Blower
Lisa,
Like you I have researched Lawyers who specialize in Internet Law. The Internet to me like the last legal frontier, as it seems lawless at times like this. I think what we need to do is find one that practices in MA. I do find it odd that PF does not have a Privacy Policy in place. I thought the Federal Trade Commission required all websites who gather personal identifying information to post what their Privacy Policies are and give the user the ability to Opt Out of their databases. At the very least they should give the ability to contact the organization in writing and request that all data be removed.
To be continued…
AUGUST 11, 2016
Lisa
Punished Whistle Blower,
PF should be approached from a legal angle, if possible. It’s possible there is enough on this blog alone to interest the legal community. And here is something that the media savvy PF individuals will understand. The media would LOVE a story about former members pursuing legal action against a recovery forum. It pushes all the right buttons from a human interest perspective. The attention the whole issue would garner wouldn’t hurts struggling lawyer either.
Yes, currently there is a Wild West atmosphere online. It is the height of irony that a site that is anti-psychopath, (which closely mirrors the anti-bullying phenomenon) is engaging in bullying of the worst kind.
Thankfully, I was healed from the P targeting and in therapy when they tried to humiliate me, smear my character and impugn my intentions. The discard was triggering as Hell. I had an unnecessarily tough time. I resent what they did to me. I don’t mean to be melodramatic here but I think it’s important to note that even after healing from a dump and discard by a P, the targeted individual is often left clinging to threads of their own dignity. Not only is ongoing ‘soul retrieval’a huge part of putting yourself back together again, but your sense of security around abandonment has already been shattered.
PF, through their shaming, gas-lighting and caustic approach is almost a repeat of the targeted member’s experience.
They have put innocent members through complete Hell when they are least able to take it. You enter what you think is a therapeutic, sharing and helping atmosphere and end up being abused, sometimes pretty seriously verbally bullied.
They need to be stopped.
AUGUST 13, 2016
Lisa
Just perused their site and noted that they do NOT have non profit status yet. Non-profit status is ‘pending.’ I think this means that Peace et al can distribute (blow) funds any way they want, while they wait to qualify….unless part of the application process involves transparency while everything is in process. Possible, but unlikely, in which case donated money might be paying for things like…well what appears to be a hair piece or wig that Mackenzie is wearing in his bio-pic. That was catty…I know. Meow!
AUGUST 14, 2016
Actually, I was confused for a moment there as well. I think there was an announcement about their status pending and a later one about having obtained it.
AUGUST 15, 2016
Lisa
Hi Madge,
If you click the ‘donate’ button it takes you to a page set up to take your donation. On that page it says that their non profit status is pending.
AUGUST 15, 2016
It does say that. Confused again.
AUGUST 15, 2016
Punished Whistle Blower
Lisa and Madge,
They are listed with the IRS:
https://apps.irs.gov/app/eos/pub78Search.do?ein1=47-3865791&names=Psychopath+free&city=Boston&state=MA&country=US&deductibility=all&dispatchMethod=searchCharities&submitName=Search
And check out as a nonprofit:
http://charitycheck101.org/report/?id=473865791
Lisa,
“I think it’s important to note that even after healing from a dump and discard by a P, the targeted individual is often left clinging to threads of their own dignity. Not only is ongoing ‘soul retrieval’a huge part of putting yourself back together again, but your sense of security around abandonment has already been shattered. PF, through their shaming, gas-lighting and caustic approach is almost a repeat of the targeted member’s experience.”
To be honest, I read this yesterday, and it hit home.. it even hurt a little.. because it is true. Sorry I did not post earlier.. I was stunned. Well stated. It felt shameful to be rejected (discarded) again.
The victims (PF Admins) have become victimizers.
AUGUST 15, 2016
Perhaps they just forgot to edit the page and left the “pending” in place.
AUGUST 15, 2016
Lisa
Maria, Yes most likely. Strange oversight though.
AUGUST 15, 2016
Lisa
Punished Whistle Blower,
Discarding members by banning, particularly without explanation, is ruthless and cruel, particularly after encouraging you to join their ‘safe space,’ trust them, eschew other forms of social interaction.
Turning on a dime, over some hair splitting difference of opinion, from being your ‘best friend’ to your sworn enemy, indicates extreme emotional lability. To take the cautionary email you KINDLY provided about the online photo issue, as somehow threatening, is not only paranoid, it’s stupid.
I am so sorry you had to go through feeling victimized all over again. It’s a terrible feeling. I know I was completely blindsided by their paranoid idiocy but I was only a member for a short time when it happened. So ouch ouch. Yes, very, very painful for those who have been on there longer.
They are hardly educational. They behave like an irresponsible cult run by megalomaniacs.
AUGUST 15, 2016
Perhaps they indeed tried to recruit kids en masse (they were discussing “expanding” this awareness to youth) and someone noticed they were on a mission to brainwash them. Who knows. The site does look much smaller and the members online simultaneously are few compared to a few months ago.
AUGUST 15, 2016
Lisa
Hi Maria,
A concerned parent or teacher might have noticed the inroads they are or were trying to make into the youth market and recognized the potential for harm. Though PF’s child focussed campaign uses (used?) euphemisms with descriptors like liar, cheater, bully, they are (were) warming up to the big P reveal. Or so it seems.
Through its sloppy education campaign, PF was (or is) encouraging hyper-vigilance mode about minor and typical childhood transgressions and subsequent demonizing of children by other children.
No matter who is coaching them, children are not up to, nor should they be encouraged to define character by anybody other than their elders, familiar with the specifics of the lives of the children involved.
They may have either come up or are currently transgressing one of the last taboos out there, and that is the labelling of children, whose personalities are still forming and who could suffer bullying themselves, as a consequence.
If Psychopath Free, can’t manage a forum FOR adults, monitored BY adults online, in a way that doesn’t harm the innocent, how do they expect children, in a school yard to manage?
AUGUST 16, 2016
Punished Whistle Blower
From what I have recently learned, it is unethical to diagnose a teenager with psychopathy until their prefrontal cortex has fully developed; which doe not occur until they are in their 20s. Many children exhibits signs an symptoms of egocentrism, and lack of empathy because their frontal lobe has not matured. It does not mean they are Ps. If this behavior continues throughout adulthood however, it is likely… but once again it must be diagnosed by a professional. Not the moderator of a forum.
Another grandiose PF idea for sure.
I do however recall seeing a post on PF where they encouraged users to purchase and donate the PF book to their local battered women’s shelter. In all honesty… I thought that was a good idea at the time.
AUGUST 16, 2016
Punished Whistle Blower
I do not think the site is appropriate for children or young adults. Just the thought makes my stomach churn.
AUGUST 15, 2016
Lisa
I’m happy to hear that most public school systems wouldn’t touch the book with a ten foot pole. But…in the U.S. in some jurisdictions fundamentalist Christianity is very strong. They control school libraries and to some degree school curriculums. They have managed to slip the story of biblical creation into science classes!
It would be quite something if Psychopath Free made it into school libraries on that basis. The belief that devils walk among us and are involved in a pitched battle to overtake all the ‘good people’ dovetails nicely with the belief system of PF.
Did somebody mention they are developing some kind of loose affiliation with the Christian community??
AUGUST 19, 2016
Yes, apparently they are, although I give Christians more credit than to fall for that at a closer analysis.
These people are bent on splitting up families and promoting unyielding hatred, which is the exact opposite of what Christians argue for.
AUGUST 19, 2016
Lisa
Maria, i think there is a very clear difference between fundamentalism and the more rational forms of Christianity.
I agree that most Christians wouldn’t fall for an ideology as black and white as portrayed by PF, or snake handling Pentacostals, for that matter.
AUGUST 19, 2016
Thomas Sheridan
Happy Christmas Maria and everyone here. I was sent this video which is very relevant.
DECEMBER 28, 2016
Happy Christmas to you as well, Thomas; I hope you are well.
Yes, it had been up for a while, I came across it about a month ago. It’s good that people are putting this information out there and it no longer seems too dangerous.
A while ago I had an encounter on a forum with someone who was brainwashed by another platform of this type, called Out Of The Fog, and after reading more about it, its history is littered with founder feuds and accusations, plus the usual regarding crazy, dictatorial behaviour. It’s always the same with these groups, it seems. Yet they convince ordinary people to start proselytising their BS. This person seems obsessed to the point of studying strangers online to diagnose them with BPD, codependency and so forth. Quite a shame that these scams can fool people to that degree.
DECEMBER 28, 2016