“No Victim Blaming” Vs “Tough Love”
Everything generates trends nowadays – even recovery from abusive relationships.
Whereas logic tells us there could be numerous explanations for the way a relationship evolves, even when abuse (or aggression) is present, self-appointed experts in “healing” generally take two approaches – that of tearing the perpetrator apart or that of slapping the enabler around as a helpful wake up call.
Obviously, both are just as wrong and damaging, since they fail to consider human nature – that every individual is different and so is every relationship, regardless of common traits which make some of them comparable.
“Victim blaming”
Putting people down for being too credulous or hopeful is indeed a toxic attitude and those who routinely use other people’s mistakes to feel better about themselves are indeed pathetic. However, as with everything in life, extremes should always be avoided in order to preserve one’s sanity, especially if the person who is turning to such groups for help feels responsible as well for the relationship failing or for starting it in the first place.
Personally, I disagree with the idea of codependency, as people are so complex and evolve throughout life; they may be willing to accept abuse for some time and radically change later, without the need to brand themselves with lifelong personality issues. It has become a plight of our times to label ourselves with all sorts of abstract concepts which cannot be accurately identified and there are plenty shysters lurking to take advantage of our fear of being abnormal.
Then again I may be wrong and this approach may work for some people. It’s not for me to say what their approach should be and I find it totally ridiculous for them to be rejected by a peer support group as if they were “traitors to the cause”.
On Psychopath Free, one is expected to place all the blame on the person who was more aggressive and absolve oneself of it entirely. That cannot lead to realism or growth and can only help momentarily. Whilst not blaming others for their predicament is only fair, one should be given the chance to speak their mind about their own, otherwise support becomes a travesty.
Also, this article is great food for thought regarding one-sided views.
“Tough love”
Whereas persisting in a victim mentality doesn’t do people any favours, being bullied by overconfident (anonymous) “advisers” is just as toxic. This is known to happen especially on Lisa E Scott’s forum, not so much by the founder herself but by the two people who run the site, as seen here in numerous testimonies as well as on complaints.com.
You can read more about similar forums here and here.
A mixture of both
Another aspect I find odd is the refusal of Psychopath Free and The Path Forward alike to support those who cannot break away from the relationship in question (sometimes it’s simply impossible due to living arrangements, children etc., and other times members are understandably confused). These people are so self-righteous they reject anyone who deviates from the sacred “procedure” they have established.
Of course, it becomes really twisted when they alternate the two approaches; Psychopath Free probably coined the unlikely combination. First they reassure the member to the back of beyond it was not their fault for persisting in the relationship and label those who accused them of being weak as cruel and superficial.
However, if that person refuses or fails to permanently break contact, they are swiftly booted out the back door. Hence someone can be considered normal while rejecting others’ warnings for years, but if God forbid, they do not apply the advice given on PF right away, they must be hopeless. Staff members will treat them with arrogance and disdain, as if they had failed to embrace the ultimate answer, the ultimate revelation. Beyond ridiculous, as usual.
While these two paths might keep a person above water for a while, in the long run they will lead to anything but sanity.
Stefan
If you seek healing and recovery from abuse it’s not a good choice to join recovery forums on the internet. Even forums who seem quite reputable can be a blind alley. If you compare bpdfamily.com to psychopathfree.com bpedfamily looks like a safe place. But you also get banned if you don’t coincide to their policy. My account on bpdfamily.com was deactivated after I was complainimng about their policy of splitting. They use to split answers you write to other members and make new threads out of them and they give them new titles. It looks like you opened this thread and choose the thread-title. You answer “Yes, my ex did the same and he/she also did this or that” and the next day you see your own post as a new thread-starter with the headline “My ex did this or that”. I didn’t like when the moderators were splitting my posts, because it made me fell like a drama queen who opens a new thread for every little thing I discovered in the aftermath of my relationship. This was not my intention. So I complained about the splitting of threads and the result was that my account was deactivated.You can beg to reactivate your account here: http://bpdfamily.com/resolution/201-A.htm and http://bpdfamily.com/resolution/A1-2.htm – looks nice, doesn’t it?
AUGUST 10, 2015
Admin
Sounds like so many of them just repeat a pattern of arrogance and entitlement. I agree it’s totally wrong to open threads on people’s behalf, with their exact quote, making it look like they’d opened them; it’s totally misleading. They could have used the idea and rephrased it. it’s so weird.It’s like all these people think they can do as they please with your personal stories without you being offended.
Thank you for that; I hadn’t heard of bpdfamily. Then again there are so many popping up all over the place it’s starting to seem like a small on-line industry. I wonder what the chances are that some of these people were never victims of abuse in the first place.
AUGUST 10, 2015
Stefan
I don’t think, that they are all bad people or disordered themselves. It’s the media of the internet forum that creates a disordered interpersonal dynamic. An online community can’t fulfil the needs of people who come out of an abusive relationship. You never get close enough to each other to see the real person behind the nickname. So veryone stays an object for each other – especially for the moderators and admins, who have to deal with a growing community of people, who all tell similar stories – and maybe some of them really are trolls or psychopaths who are looking for new victims.You need trust and intimacy to help someone who suffered from emotional abuse. Theres no room for this in an online forum.
AUGUST 11, 2015
Admin
I think you’re right about most members; they are merely caught in a system trying to help themselves and each other, being virtual strangers.That still doesn’t explain how abusive and absurd the moderators are on these forums (I’m not sure about the one you mentioned as I know nothing about it).
You’re right about an internet forum not being equipped, so to say, to help anyone as real therapy would.
AUGUST 11, 2015
Stefan
The reason why I think online communities are dangerous is: Many people who come out an abusive relationship are isolated, they don’t have a support system in their real life. They are looking for a safe place, they are looking fore someone to talk to. But they end up in the cold and unempathic surroundings of an online community where they are just another nickname that can be banned. They are struggling to find out, who they are and they cling to communities, where they are not allowed to be themselves. They are not allowed to stand up and say: “Hey, this is me and this is what I’m thinking,” They walk on eggshells and participate in the overall love bombing.I suspect, that there’s a method: Tell someone, that she/he has childhood issues to resolve, and you can treat him like a child. Tell them “You have to heal, and you don’t know how to heal yourself. We know. Trust us. And if you don’t, we kick you out. We know, that you you don’t want to be banned. So please be a good child, as you always were.”
AUGUST 12, 2015
Admin
They surely talk down to people, though they claim to have been abused themselves, so on the same level as normal members, so to speak. And they’re aware their methods – if they even have any ”methods” – are improvised.I know what you mean. The internet can be great for connecting with others but there are so many traps as well…
AUGUST 12, 2015
Admin
About that link for contesting… It is so over the top. ”Hearing committee”… I almost burst out laughing. They are so full of themselves. It seems more democratic than PF by giving you the chance to send a complaint, but the self-importance is just disgusting. They don’t need such formalities to speak to another human being,It reminds me of an article I read about a private garden in London; they have all these little rules which can cause residents to lose their ”key privilege”. And to appeal, one must appear before a ”committee”, to discuss… things like bringing a larger ball to the garden than permitted. Some people are intoxicated with the thought of their own measly importance.
AUGUST 10, 2015
Stefan
Before someone deletes it on PF, I copy it here:https://www.psychopathfree.com/showthread.php?38940-thoughts-on-this-article
A thread started by survived1970 with the title: “thoughts on this article?” and a link to http://omtimes.com/2012/09/facing-the-truth-about-hurtful-people/
It is already classified as “victim blaming” by a member. Let’s see, if it will be deleted. Tangerine writes:
“in my opinion, this article is classic victim blaming
if the admins agree, it is against forum rules and you would be asked to remove the link
the reason it is victim blaming is because all of the responsibility for so-called denial or refusal, is on the victims, with absolutely no explanation of how perpetrators constantly and deliberately manipulate and brainwash their targets.
dangerous stuff, and not good to read this kind of thing, if one wants to recover from psychopathic or narcissitic or any other kind of abuse
understandable that you are seeking answers, I know I sure was – but I was much better off reading materials on this forum, and also the recommended books on the Bookshelf.
hugs “
SEPTEMBER 2, 2015
Admin
You have to love a good cult . It’s amazing how they claim the only viable approach is on their forum and in their chosen books. The article is very good actually and I’m sure it rings a bell with many people who were shocked by the behaviour of their loved ones. Nobody needs an extreme attitude, as in idolising or demonising others (which is what they do on PF). Yes, some people adopt naivety as a defence mechanism and grow up slower; the last thing they need to hear is that they are surrounded by vile psychopaths. The article was trying to help, not blame or shame them.SEPTEMBER 2, 2015
Caitlin
Yeah, it’s kinda creepy when they advocate their own resources or chosen resources as the only viable way to recover, etc.SEPTEMBER 3, 2015
Admin
They manipulated a member who wanted to discus a few ideas to forget about them and ask for their opinions instead. It basically went from ”hey, this is interesting, let’s talk about it” to ”bin that; whatever your questions are we can answer them better than anyone else”.SEPTEMBER 3, 2015
Admin
I’m familiar with the thought police; another innocently posted thread about empaths was jumped on by a couple of over-zealous members, saying it was ”triggering” to others, dangerous etc etc. If that’s true, then what isn’t triggering on their forum?SEPTEMBER 2, 2015
Admin
Well, I just checked and surprisingly, after two days the thread is still there, with the OP receiving kind suggestions of opening a new one so he/she can receive the typical answers from the PF community, instead of bringing forth a new approach to discuss with them. Of course, beforehand he/she should ask a mod to delete the link to the article.Because people go to them for answers, not the other way around; they are above taking advice from anyone else.
Seen from an objective angle, this is so blatantly manipulative, so transparent, and it must happen all the time.
SEPTEMBER 3, 2015
Caitlin
That’s par for the course on PF. Although I offered practical (not abusive) advice to another member, it was seen as being argumentative, trolling, etc. I’ve mentioned it in another comment on another piece on your blog. I was told something along the lines of, “giving advice makes one person feel superior, while it leaves the victim feeling inferior. Unsollicited advice is wrong” (with the implication that it was abusive.) It wasn’t even direct advice that I gave, it was just suggesting that it’s unfair to characterize others as unempathetic when there could be myriad reasons they don’t respond to us in the way we expect. Calling it argumentative, unempathetic, etc, is just plain wrong and stupid.SEPTEMBER 3, 2015
Admin
Besides, they are on the forum to either receive or give advice. And if unsolicited advice is wrong, where would that leave what they’re doing…? If anyone is giving aggressive advice at times it’s them. I saw a member chased off the forum because she wouldn’t leave her partner. That’s really messed up. They have huge projection issues, not to mention cognitive dissonance, which they describe inaccurately on their site; the only refer to it as an aspect of a traumatic relationship, whilst its meaning is so much wider.SEPTEMBER 3, 2015
Caitlin
They really do. I have nothing against people with BPD (as you probably saw from my post, I think they’re highly treatable if they don’t have co-morbid conditions.) However, I strongly suspect that some of the forum moderators and members have undiagnosed BPD or have PD-NOS with borderline traits. Black-and-white thinking, emotional lability, stress-related paranoia (when contradicted).SEPTEMBER 3, 2015
Admin
I’m not that familiar with the condition, though I have read a couple of books on it based on the experiences of children who grew up with borderline parents.
What I know is that something is really wrong with this picture; one minute they portray themselves as balanced, wise and empathetic and the next one they tear into people (I’ve never witnessed anyone being directly insulted but I’ve read many comments describing how vicious the swarming gets). I’ve seen arrests which were carried out more politely than they treat people at times.They somehow have this idea that PF is a ray of light on this planet; Peace was describing the atmosphere as warm and fantastic, right after saying the security reports had trebled. That to me is insane, partly because I know exactly what it’s like to live in a system where everyone grasses you to the state on ”suspicions” and people are paranoid about each other. It’s far from fantastic; in fact it’s disgusting. He’s essentially proud of the fact that members report each other constantly, in secrecy, without anyone knowing what they’re accused of. He encourages it. That is a red flag the size of China.
SEPTEMBER 3, 2015
Caitlin
I agree with you. The forum is rife with something that’s very similar to McCarthyism and Red Scare. The air of paranoia is rampant.SEPTEMBER 3, 2015
Stefan
This one is interesting:“We put BPD, NPD, HPD and ASPD in the same box and call them psychopaths, but please don’t bother us, when you ex is not a psychopath – or what we think, has to be apsychopath, Your ex was just passive-aggressive – why do you bother us with your complaints? We are victims of real psychopaths.”
SEPTEMBER 7, 2015
Maria
Very ”sensitive”, as usual.SEPTEMBER 7, 2015
Caitlin
Wow. Victoria is a piece of work.SEPTEMBER 8, 2015
Alternative Approaches to Dysfunctional Relationships
In an age of quasi-robotic living, quick answers and quick solutions, we tend to see human interaction as less complex than it actually is; we sometimes want to divide people into strict categories to love, hate, respect, trust, disdain or fear.
We no longer look inside ourselves or to those around us for ways to address our conflicts, but turn outwards instead, in search of the ”mathemathics” of human relationships, thinking somehow others have decoded them and we can take a quick course which will give us the ability to always control who we relate to and how. That is an illusion; life is unpredictable and so are human beings.
Obviously, there are situations when people can pose a real danger to others and the latter need to cut ties with them immediately; I am not referring to them here. Also, I choose not to refer to work-related conflicts as I have found people who needlessly pick on strangers (such as employees, co-workers, employers) are usually nasty and should be avoided.
Personal relationships are always tricky; there are issues such as a common history, a separate and joint evolution, high expectations, errors not yet forgiven, unvoiced frustrations, misinterpreted or undiscussed emotional signals and communicational problems.
There could be multiple explanations and solutions for personal conflicts, yet the tendency today is to seek the fastest one – my partner/ my ex/ my parent/ my sibling is a disordered individual and immediate separation is my only chance to live a normal life. Of course, sometimes that is the actual case. However, after watching the dynamics on recovery forums and my own tendency to ply myself to this stereotypical thinking, my observation is that some people do rush to this conclusion.
I am not arguing those who erroneously reach this conclusion are not actually hurting – when one is overwhelmed by depression, anger, confusion or helplessness, they are an easily gained audience by know-it-all types with a quick answer and an agenda of personal validation. From first hand experience, people in such states are so mentally tired they embrace any plausible answer which gives them certainty and a direction in life.
Once they are in a group of this type they reinforce their approach and echo it to each other; it becomes their reality; then, as opposed to considering psychopathy an extreme societal aspect, they end up applying this label way too easily.
I remember when I became aware of the modern shift towards cultural Marxism; I was seeing marxists everywhere. In the same manner, people who are on the look out for psychopaths live by the ”warning signs” and when one or two seem to be present their guard goes up immediately. This leads to many ”false flags”, so to speak, and constricts the lives of those who live in a permanent fear of encountering disordered types.
In my opinion, extreme disorders such as psychopathy should be the last option to examine – certainly not the first.
Even if a relationship is toxic, it doesn’t automatically mean one person is at fault, and even when one person really is at fault it doesn’t automatically make them evil. And even if they are evil to some degree, it does not make them heartless, which is what psychopaths are.
When partners end up arguing all the time for no specific reason and become estranged from each other, the root could reside in issues such as:
- Unvoiced frustrations;
- Fears, phobias, complexes, obsessions and other aspects left undiscussed;
- Other emotional baggage popping up unexpectedly;
- Past events, unrelated to the current relationship;
- Depression, hormonal imbalance, midlife crisis etc;
- Substance abuse;
- Stress, sleep deprivation etc, which affect one partner in particular;
- A spiritual crisis;
- Major cultural and educational differences which start showing overtime;
- Negative parental influences which start showing at some point etc.
These are common sense suggestions, to which I can add the overall difficulty of being a man or a woman in this day and age, when morals and gender roles are so blurred. People grow and change; it’s truly wonderful when they can put up with each other for many years.
Our culture is replete with the dysfunctional relationship and family motif, which is omnipresent on television, in films, in music etc. It is also replete with false ideals and expectations for partners to internalise, seeking to turn women into little more than blow-up dolls and men into emasculated metrosexuals who never grow up. Marketers seeking to sell the illusion of eternal youth know exactly what buttons to push and have a devastating impact on our psyche; we are brought up with messages which go against our instincts and often cause us to be confused.
When intense conflicts with family members are involved, aside from different values, repressed childhood memories and generational differences, there is a theory that spiritual issues may be involved as well, as described by Dr Kenneth McAll in his works, such as Healing The Family Tree. Whilst this approach surely isn’t for everyone, it is generally accepted that family secrets have a strong impact when they finally emerge.
Past generations certainly had their flaws, yet also their strong points. One is a double-edged sword – the principle of protecting one’s intimacy and the public image of those we love. In past centuries and decades, the family was thought to be a fortress and people stuck together. Of course, that can be very damaging when real abuse is involved and no one should be shamed or emotionally blackmailed into covering it up – which is what happens in cults for instance.
But today we tend to use the internet as a venting platform for our grievances, regardless of their nature and seriousness (or lack thereof). As a person who has been guilty of this on occasion, I know that type of exposure, albeit anonymous, does draw a wedge between people, as well as guilt and embarrassment when realising the exaggerated reaction. Just as some people can be cruel jerks at times, others can be oversensitive and react too strongly to behaviour which would otherwise be annoying, yet not a matter of life and death.
A person can mislead themselves and those around them into demonising another without having to lie, by listing the shortcomings and mistakes of the latter. Logically, if we all made an honest list of our own defects, mistakes, wrong turns in life etc, hardly anyone would preserve a good image. Hence they can collectively draw a false conclusion based on true facts, if that makes any sense.
My stance is not of accusing those who lash out when they get too emotional, or who temporarily see a person in the wrong light; that would be hypocritical. We live in a messed up world where we no longer know what healthy living is, where we keep more contacts than we can sustain and have little time left for reflection. In my opinion, by constantly exposing our intimacy we harm ourselves and those around us. Again, I am not referring to actual abuse, which should be exposed and addressed.
The Artistry Of Glorified Bullshit 